The House Absolute
The Antechamber
An area with specific Kafkaesque overtones. There's a famous story in `The Trial', told to K. by a priest who turns out to be a chaplain of the Court (with which everyone is somehow associated): a man tries to gain admission to the Law, but is held back by a gatekeeper. He spends his whole life waiting in that room. He is told that, were he to get through, he would find a whole sequence of other antechambers (I read it in German, so the word itself certainly didn't occur); even the third gatekeeper is too terrible for the first one to behold. As the man is finally dying, he asks the gatekeeper why no-one else tries to gain admission, and is told `This door was put there for you alone. Now I will go and close it.' (It's in the chapter called `Im Dom', `In the Cathedral', towards the end.) The individual importance isn't there in Wolfe's version, but the notion of spending one's life waiting for access to the Law is very similar.
Gene Wolfe is very cagey about those n-th generation prisoners of the antechamber, the ones Jonas talks to and then kind of flips out because of. (Severian is chatted up by relative newcomers Lomer the pedophile (who also appears in "The Cat") and Nicarete the volunteer.)
The n-th generation prisoners seem to be from a starship crew--one of the few clues: the girl says that people in black came to bury "the navigator." They have strange ideas about the outside natural world, e.g. bees and honey, which might be enhanced by their starship origins. Since prisoners in the antechamber are people detained for trespassing or lawbreaking on the grounds of the House Absolute, their ship may have landed or crashed nearby.
When Jonas starts raving, in his mind he is back on a starship. We know that Jonas was in a starship that crashed on Urth and he has been wandering around ever since. Is his mental breakdown due to the fact that he has just met the prisoner descendants of his former crewmates? That having achieved his goal of being reunited with his former crewmates, he finds them changed and in prison, so his dream is dead? (I use this last phrase to note that the oracular brown book story relates to Jonas as well as Severian--the story Severian reads aloud is "The Tale of the Student and His Son." After hearing this tale, Jonas seems to get a grip on himself--in hindsight we can guess that he has recovered from the ruins of his old dream by refocusing on his newer dream of Jolenta. Which is why he is ready to step into the mirrors when he does.)
The real trigger seems to have been the name of their earliest ancestor: Kimleesoong. Jonas seems to have known this person, whose name was common in lands that have since sunk under the sea. So the n-th generation prisoners might also have garbled Asian names, or they might have job titles as names.
What crime did they commit? Because they probably did something. Maybe just landing on the gardens. Or maybe they were the Adam and Eve colonists at the dawn of the Age of the Autarch (see "Eschatology and Genesis"): landed in the "Garden," taken prisoner--the seed entombed.
There has often been talk on this list of how far in the future the Commonwealth of Severian's time is. I was perplexed, however, at the personage of Kimleesoong (Kim Lee Soong) that Jonas mentions in the antechamber of the House Absolute. Jonas says that he is seven generations removed from the current generation. Unless the prisoners there were extremely long-lived, this would place him after the reign of Ymar and Typhon. We saw in UotNS that the days of Ymar and Typhon are far removed from ours, and there are no names reminescent of modern times like the obviously Korean name of Kim Lee Soong. (Jonas also mentions that Korea has been under the ocean for ages). How do we solve this problem, where a man from our time is present in a future perhaps 1 million years away? Here are my hypotheses:
1) the Antechamber is somehow connected to the Corridors of Time, and our Korean man stumbled upon them. This is possible, but I am not sure it happened.
2) Kim Lee Soong was a sailor just a Jonas was, from a few decades or centuries after our time, who came back to Urth millions of years after his time, and was then imprisoned. Indeed, Jonas appears to be in much the same circumstances, considering that, feverish, he babbled in Korean in the antechamber (Korean is a nasal, monosyllabic language. I am sure it was Korean and not Chinese, because Severian does not speak of tones). Strangely, this is the only place I can find where Jonas is culturally identified. Severian never seems to remark on any Asiatic features with Jonas, however. This is the possibility I most strongly support.
3) The Urth of the Autarchy is not so far in the future as we suspect, a possibility I will, however, reject.
>There has often been talk on this list of how far in the future the >Commonwealth of Severian's time is. I was perplexed, however, at the personage >of Kimleesoong (Kim Lee Soong) that Jonas mentions in the antechamber of the >House Absolute. Jonas says that he is seven generations removed from the >current generation.
Isn't it the prisoners who make this claim? And isn't it also mentioned that some of the previous generation also claimed to be seventh generation descendants of the original prisoners? I don't have the book with me so I'll have to double check that. Maybe it's just part of their lore: "We're all seventh generation prisoners..."
>Isn't it the prisoners who make this claim? And isn't it also mentioned that some of the previous generation also claimed to be seventh generation descendants of the original prisoners?<
But still, the fact that they would remember that ancient name from our time is staggering and improbable. I still think Kim Lee Soong was a sailor who returned to Urth at just about the same time Jonas did, which would have put him in the Monarchy/Autarchy.
The text says that the prisoners (most but not all--don't forget Lomer and Nicarete) are descendents of crew of a starship that crashlanded on or near the House Absolute. They were looking for the Port but they couldn't find one at all.
Starship crews are, by Briahtic definition, from earlier ages--their travels across light years have taken years of time.
"Jonas," an android sailor on the ship, was repaired with biological remnants of an Urth shepherd who was killed by the crash. Hence he "looks" like a (European) commoner rather than an Asiatic (Korean/Chinese/whatever) microwave oven.
As you know, I consider "Kimleesoong" to be the most likely answer to the question of "What is Hethor's true and secret name?"
>As you know, I consider "Kimleesoong" to be the most likely answer to the question of "What is Hethor's true and secret name?"<
But that would make Hethor pretty darn old, wouldn't it? I mean, the antichamber prisoners speak of Kimleesoong as far back in time, and although Hethor is "a dirty old sailor," he doesn't appear several hundred years old (e.g. like Keith Richards). There is talk in UotNS of sailors getting older, younger, or just staying the same forever, but that is on the ship of Tzadkiel and not Urth. It could be that Hethor found himself in the antichamber, but was able to escape with his powers of thaumatugy (after fathering children, or whatever), and then perhaps spent more time in space before coming back to Urth in Severian's era. Of course, Jonas and Hethor (if KLS is indeed his real name) are both Korean, but they served on different ships, or did they? Are the Quasar and Fortunate Cloud the same? Both crashed far back in the Autarchy when looking for the ports, although Wolfe hints that this happened with most ships returning to Urth. One wonders why they didn't just go to the Port of Lune.
Incidentally, Severian says to the Hierodules (Famulimus, Babatus, and Ossipago) that Hethor never mentioned his ship's name, but he did, and it was the Quasar. So whose memory is at fault here, Severian or Wolfe's?
>There is talk in UotNS of sailors getting older, younger, or just staying the >same forever, but that is on the ship of Tzadkiel and not Urth. It could be >that Hethor found himself in the antichamber, but was able to escape with his >powers of thaumatugy (after fathering children, or whatever), and then perhaps >spent more time in space before coming back to Urth in Severian's era.
I am sure this is true.
>Of course, Jonas and Hethor (if KLS is indeed his real name) are both Korean, >but they served on different ships, or did they?
Jonas is Korean? How so?
>Are the Quasar and Fortunate Cloud the same?
They can't be. Wolfe plays lots of tricks, but not that kind of tricks.
>Incidentally, Severian says to the Hierodules (Famulimus, Babatus, and
>Ossipago) that Hethor never mentioned his ship's name, but he did, and it was >the Quasar. So whose memory is at fault here, Severian or Wolfe's?
Hmmmm. I know you're right, but citation please. (chapter, since we've all got different editions.
>Jonas is Korean? How so?<
He certainly speaks Korean. See the description of his feverish ramblings in the Antechamber. Severian notes that Jonas was talking in a nasal, monosyllabic language. Korean is such a language, almost every word ends in a nasal consonant or a vowel, and there are no two-syllable words as such. However, the language could also be Chinese. It's possible.
>Hmmmm. I know you're right, but citation please.<
Well, I pulled out my battered citation-copy of _Shadow_, and it wasn't where I thought it would be! I assumed Hethor mentioned it in his babblings before the actors in the last chapter, but it appears I was wrong. I'll go check to see if it's in some other places soon. However, it comes to me now that, although Hethor mentioned it, the Quasar might not have been his ship. I believe he mentioned his ship passed the Quasar in the void, I'll sort it out.
I imagined: >Are the Quasar and Fortunate Cloud the same?< Alga retaliated: >They can't be. Wolfe plays lots of tricks, but not that kind of tricks.<
Well, I could respond that Wolfe has hinted that all interstellar ships are the Ship of Tzadkiel, but I don't think he had that idea in mind when he talked of Jonas and Hethor. What would Hethor have done on the SoT anyway? Perhaps it is there he got his experience with mirrors, if he truly worked on the Ship.
I hypothesized: >and then perhaps spent more time in space before coming back to Urth in Severian's era.< And Alga responded: >I am sure this is true.<
Well, I'd love to know who helped him get off the planet after the fall of the Monarchy and human endeavours in space. I imagine that Abaia might have gotten him off Urth by the same method he uses to let the undines "swim the void."
Jonas is a _robot_, remember. A robot assembled in Korea might babble in that langauge when delirious, it's true, but it seems far more likely to me that what Severian is hearing is some form of computer-speak. The vocal equivalent of 8086 machine code, if you like.
And of Kim Lee Soong: >the fact that they would remember that ancient name from our time >is staggering and improbable
It doesn't have to date back to "our time". Only a thousand years or so (maybe a lot less) before Ymar such names may still have been in use. If we can accept that the prison as an institution can have lasted that long, I can accept that one of its earliest prisoners has passed into prison folklore. (It's not as if they would have had much else to chat about over the centuries...)
Mantis wrote: >The text says that the prisoners (most but not all--don't forget >Lomer and Nicarete) are descendents of crew of a starship that >crashlanded on or near the House Absolute. They were looking for the >Port but they couldn't find one at all.
I hate to use the C-word again, but where does it say this? Jonas tells us that _he_crewed on a ship that crashed, certainly, but the prisoners seem to be there for far more mundane reasons.
>"Jonas," an android sailor on the ship, was repaired with biological >remnants of an Urth shepherd who was killed by the crash.
Mantis, where are you getting this stuff from?!?! :-) Android, yes. But shepherd? Jonas tell us "He was on the ground... We killed him by accident, coming in." Personally I've always assumed that he was talking about entering a sealed environment, and thus killing a human crew-member somehow. If you're suggesting that this person was actually in the path of the crashing ship, fair point, but in that case he could have been anybody: tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor. Why shepherd?
While I'm being baffled, where does this theory that Hethor is Kim Lee Soong come from? If Agia says Hethor isn't his real name that's good enough for me, but why should he be KLS?
You'll all thank me for being such a Doubting Thomas one day, you know. <g>
There's so much tangled here, I hardly know where to start. Belabor the obvious? Shorthand a detail covered in an essay somewhere?
Is it understood that certain prisoners are n-th generation ship crew? Is this unclear? The death of "the navigator," (II, ch. 16) yes? Why would an entire crew be wandering around the Gardens of the House Absolute together? Is there such a thing as "simple unconnected coincidence" within the elaborate labyrinth of a Wolfe fiction? We have ancient mariners, we have prisoners descended from sailors . . .
(How many old men poling on the Lake of Birds? You don't suppose that was the =same= old man on hand after Severian's near drowning [I, ch. 2], asking about seeing a woman underwater?)
Is it understood that both Jonas and Hethor are sailors of great age?
Is it understood that Hethor is being very crafty in keeping Jonas from seeing him, even when the two characters are seemingly in the same scene? For instance, at the Wall of Nessus. That if Jonas were to see Hethor he would be able to blurt out the terrible secret? Even Severian (one time, that means "penultimate level hint"; because the ultimate level hints are =things not shown yet sensed by their absence=) notices this avoidance, and wonders =if they served on the same ship= (III, ch. 16).
Is it understood that Hethor has spent time on starship Tzadkiel? (IV, ch. 4). That the most likely source of Hethor's magic mirrors is that he stole them from Yesod, making him a sort of Prometheus?
Is there any real doubt that "Fortunate Cloud" and "Quasar" are different translations of the same anciently named ship? (The 20th century term "quasar" is for a quasi-stellar object, i.e., somewhat "cloudlike"--and at least one quasar has been clocked moving away from Earth at a very interesting 94.4% of the speed of light [Emiliani, THE SCIENTIFIC COMPANION, p. 90].) The principle here (multiple names) is exactly that of "canna" in THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN as "the least revealing name for a PM [propulsion module]" (IV, ch. 12). Those coincidences just keep on piling up.
Is it understood that Hethor's real name is "a much older one, that hardly anyone has heard of now" (III, ch. 16)? How many ancient names in TBOTNS fit that specification? Does Severian draw a blank at "Robert," "Marie," or "Isangoma"? Nope. How about "Catherine"? Nope. Confusion on "Urvasi" or "Pururavas" (I, ch. 19)? It seems not. Does he draw a blank on "kimleesoong"? Yep.
Re: the Shepherd of Jonas. Rather than argue, let me turn the tables and praise you for your brilliant conceit: yes, of =course= the stricken man-on-the-ground was a =soldier= . . . hence =Miles=!
>Is it understood that certain prisoners are n-th generation ship >crew? Is this unclear?
"Certain" prisoners may be n-th generation ship crew, for sure, but you said "the prisoners", and the only two you seemed to be excluding were Lomer and Nicarete. This was the assertion I was asking you to qualify - and that was all I was asking you to do.
>The death of "the navigator," (II, ch. 16)
One navigator doth not a antechamber full of descendants make. The mere fact that Lomer, Jonas and Severian are "ordinary" prisoners tells us that ordinary prisoners are still put in here, and Nicarete speaks of "all those who have been here so long that they have forgotten their crimes", which implies a significant body of prisoners who have committed a crime _in their own lifetime_ to be here. They can't be ship crew descendants either.
I can see now why you think that this crew crashed on or near the House Absolute, and it makes sense to me, but we're told that the prison probably predates the reign of Ymar: surely back then there were still ports? In which case any ship can't have crashed until after the antechamber had been established, in which case... Just a thought.
>(How many old men poling on the Lake of Birds? You don't suppose >that was the =3Dsame=3D old man on hand after Severian's near drowning >[I, ch. 2], asking about seeing a woman underwater?)
Sorry if I'm being dim, but I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. If you're saying that the old man poling on the Lake _was_ the same as the one asking about seeing a woman underwater you're certainly wrong (the first is Docas's husband, the second is just possibly the old boatman we meet again at the end of TCOTA. Am I being obscure? Now you see why we sometimes want qualifying arguments <g>).
>Is it understood that Hethor is being very crafty in keeping Jonas >from seeing him, even when the two characters are seemingly in the >same scene? For instance, at the Wall of Nessus.
Yes, we know about this because Severian tells us plainly. It only tells us that J&H _may_ have served on the same ship at some point, and if they have, so what? How does this prove that Hethor is Kim Lee Soong?
>Is it understood that Hethor has spent time on starship Tzadkiel?
I ask again, how does this prove that Hethor is KLS?
>Is it understood... >...That the most likely source of Hethor's magic mirrors >is that he stole them from Yesod, making him a sort of Prometheus?
Nope, as I understand it we don't know where he got them from. But if they did come from Yesod this still, _still_, wouldn't help the KLS theory.
>Is there any real doubt that "Fortunate Cloud" and "Quasar" are >different translations of the same anciently named ship?
Uh, yes. Every doubt. A quasar is a compact, star-like source of radiation. It is _nothing_ like a cloud. If Wolfe had called Hethor's ship the "Nebula" you might have a point - but he didn't.
>Is it understood that Hethor's real name is "a much older one, that >hardly anyone has heard of now" (III, ch. 16)?
So Hethor hails from Urth's deep past. Nobody is disputing that. Given his profession it's practically a given. But that doesn't make his name Kim Lee Soong. It could be almost anything.
You suggest that KLS is the only name that Severian has never heard before, but we really don't know that because nobody else ever _asks_ him if he's heard a particular name before, as Jonas does. We do learn that Jonas is a name Severian hadn't heard before, so maybe Hethor's real name is Jonas? :-)
For what it's worth, I have never thought that Fortunate Cloud and = Quasar were the same ship. But I have never thought it surprising that = Jonas and Hethor know each other. Ships dock at the same ports, sailors = frequent the same taverns, and, too, they jump ship and sign onto = others. OTOH, I've only just begun to seriously entertain the thought = that Hethor may indeed be KLS---a name, I have argued for 2 years, = Chris, undoubtedly Korean.
FC and Q are (or were) a different order of ship than Tzadkiel's, more = mundane, I would say, but also subject to the timewarps of space. (Or do = I mean the spacewarps of time?) Thus, though Tzadkiel's ship really is = the only one of its kind, there are or were others of a different kind. = Hey, there's the Whorl!=20